Wednesday, 9 March 2011

Creation Watch - Harun Yahya

Previously announced as part of Harun Yahya's tour we have posted this report from here;

Harun Yahya's (Adnan Okatar) was not there himself, instead the "show" was hosted by two other Turkish guys, one of which introduced himself as being a brain surgeon (as if that makes him an authority on evolutionary biology.)  This is how it went...

Firstly, my video camera broke so I could not record it :(

1: Darwinism is about how the strong overtake the weak, the stronger kill the weaker.
2: This gave rise to Nazism, communism, Mao Zedong killing millions, and so on.
3: Darwinism led to racism.
4: Various quotes from Hitler, Stalin, etc
5: Quote from Darwin about how civilised man with replace the savage - narrated as "White men will kill off and replace non-white men"

Then he posted the following "problems" with evolution
(Origin of life)
A: Evolution cannot explain how life began in the first place.
B The human cell is so complicated it cannot just suddenly appear by chance.
C: The eye is so complicated that it cannot just suddenly appear by chance.
D: Gives the Boeing 747 argument.

(What are the mechanisms)
A: Natural selection does not create new information - I noted that at this point he described it as the survival of the "best suited" and not the strongest. Someone attempted to give an example and was told he could ask questions at the end.
B: The whole eye is required in order to work
C: It is impossible to create new information, only Allah can create.
D: Mutations are 99% harmful, 1% neutral, and NEVER add new information.
E: After years of working with fruit fly mutations scientists failed to make a new species - then quoted the verse from the Quran about how mankind cannot even create a fly.
F: Played this Dawkins video where Mr D apparently cannot give an example of new information in DNA receiving lots of laughter - I think it was changed to show a man asking the question.

At this point I could no longer hold my tongue. I shouted out that it is fake, that the video was edited with a different question.  I was told to be quiet by the organiser, I protested again that he was spreading misinformation.  I was told I would have the opportunity to ask questions at the end.

G: We were told that there isn't a single example of a beneficial mutation.
H: He went on to describe the golden mean ratio. I was hoping he was going to say Mecca was at the GR point on the graticule location system so I could tell him it is over 270KM away, but he didn't.  Instead he tried to show it as proof of creation by telling us the distant from our noses to our chins etc.

(Where are the fossils)
A: ALL 350 million years of fossils we have are unchanged. The ones we find which we cannot identify are simply extinct animals.
B: There are no intermediary fossils.  He actually showed a photo of crocoducks.
C: Showed the Harun Yahya Starfish to Fish morphology and said there are no such "imaginary fossils" present in the record.
D: Quoted Darwin saying the lack of fossils is a problem - implying there should be innumerable fossils.
E: There are just too many gaps in the record.
F: The Cambrian explosion shows fully formed creatures suddenly appearing, trilobites with over 2,000 eyes - and did you know that eyes cannot "just exist" unless created.  
G: Quoted verse from Quran "Allah only needs to say 'Be' and it is" - Fossil record shows that Allah said "Be".
H: At this point I noted he said that ALL species appeared at the Cambrian explosion and lots went extinct, but later he claimed something else so I'll have to check the video.
I: Quotes Dawkins again saying that the fossils look as though the creatures were just placed there, leaves out the 2nd half of the quote.
J: Trilobites were the first creatures to exist on Earth, trilobites have eyes, therefore a trilobite is irreducibly complex and must have been created.
K: Showed Darwin's famous quote about how the eye is difficult to explain, but left out the rest of the quote where he goes on to say that he still thinks it did.
L: Shows a picture of a creature crawling out of the sea onto land.  Top half life a lizard, bottom half in the water like a fish.
M: Claims that for this to happen its gills would need to turn into lungs - if I recall he stated the usual crap about how if it were born with lungs it would have drowned in water.
N: Fish fins would need to mutate into weight supporting limbs (implying that then it would not be able to swim.)
O: Showed a fossil of a fish + a living version of the fish, which proves evolution does not happen.
P: Tried to describe evolutionary stance on the origin of birds as so (the jist of it, not the actual words)

"One day a dinosaur was chasing some flies.  It flapped its arms as it ran.  This made it develop feathers, and one day it flew.  But look, what is this in the picture? It is a FLY!  Why do they try to explain FLIGHT like this when there is already something flying?"

Note how he changed the evolution of birds into a claim of how flight started.

Q: He defined evolution of humans as small monkeys getting bigger and bigger until they were humans. The presented the existence of 4ft pygmies as proof that this is not true.
R: Stated that frogs only turn into princes in fairy tales - was hard for me not to mention the verse in the Quran where Allah turned Jews into apes and pigs.
S: Explains that hominid fossils are all fake.  They are really just extinct monkeys.  Articles (not scientists) build up fake flesh on them for pictures/photos and just use their imagination to make them look however they want.  Therefore it is all fakery.
T: Piltdown man was on display for 40 years before it was discovered to be a fake.  "They" (the evolutionists) tried to fake it but got caught.
U: Quoted Heckel confessing to forging his embryo illustrations and saying that his fellows should also be on trial for forgery. Commentated it that Heckel was a remorseful confessor trying to set the record straight and get his fellow conspirators exposed for their deception too.

Then we moved onto questions - I will mark them Q & R (Question & Response) - the speaker responded, but I do not feel he gave answers...

Q: Someone gave an example of moths which experienced a change in skin colour to match the colour of the bark on trees as the bark darkened over the years due to pollution.
R: This is because the glue that was used to stick the moth samples down changed the colour.
(Questioner later told me he heard chants from audience such as "Yeah, WE got you!")

I asked a multi part question
Q: I want to get your argument correct.  Are you implying that fossils are easy to make?
R: Yes
Q: And that all creatures were created in their current form in the cambrian explosion?
R: Yes
Q: Then were are the fossils of rabbits, and mice, and humans?
R: Oh no, those were not created at the start
Q: So are you then saying that simple life was created at the start, then more complex life, and then mammals, and then humans?
R: Yes
Q: So instead of saying "Be" and it was, Allah said "Be, be, be, be, be"?
(Protests from the room for insulting their religion)
Q: So, how do you tell the difference between a scenario where god created animals at various points in time, each time more complex; and the scenario where simply life started, gradually evolved over a long period of time into more complex life forms, and there are few fossils because fossils are hard to form.

(I struggle to remember the order of his rebuttals, but I think they were in this order)
R: Because the human cell is too complex to suddenly exist, and the eye is too complex to just exist
Q: I didn't ask you about cells and eyes, I asked you about the fossils. How do you tell by looking at the fossils?
R: Because the eye, blah blah blah, and the cell, blah blah blah
(I am told to behave myself by the organiser, I protest that he is not answering the question)

Him: Even Dawkins said they were placed there.
ME: "No, he didn't say that at all.  He said they might APPEAR AS THOUGH they were placed there, but what you have done is to cut of the end of the quote where he goes on to say BUT.....and explain it, you are lying to these people"
Him: How did he explain it then? How do YOU explain it?
Me: The cambrian explosion was a period when hard bodied creatures started to exist.  Hard bodies fossilise easier than soft bodied creatures.  That's why it is easier to find the fossil of a massive dinosaur bone than it is to find the fossil of a bacteria!

I think he then went on to talk about proteins, cells, and the eye again.


  1. Fair play for being able to sit through something like that, I don't think I could do it!

  2. That must have been painful. But all credit for going — and for asking persistent questions.

    Recent TV documentaries have shown that creationist twaddle is being taught in UK Muslim schools, and the latest New Humanist magazine reveals that some of Michael Gove's 'free schools' are very likely to be hotbeds of creationism.